Wang & Li Career Development, Q&A Program

Chat Summary For The 11/25/08 Broadcast

(From 8:30pm – 9:30pm, Beijing time)

Q&A Program Topic: 

How does an overseas MBA compare to a mainland MBA

(celia):  How do Chinese employers see these two qualifications?

(Larry_Wang):  First of all, when you say Chinese employers, I'd like to distinguish that the ones I'll be talking about are international companies run by executives with international-oriented sensibilities.

So regarding how they see the two qualifications, I would say that previously, there wasn't that much confidence in a local MBA.  I'm talking about 7-8 yrs ago, and longer.  But the local programs are getting more mature and more modeled after top overseas MBA programs.  Mainly, in that before, the learning in local MBA programs was all technical.  It was all book learning in technical business areas, like accounting, statistics, operations, etc.  But they really underemphasized the development of soft skills and EQ.  So although the local MBAs were extremely bright, they were not well-trained to think and act like high potential managers.  

Conversely, the overseas MBAs tended to be more mature as thinkers and leaders, thinkers.   Meaning, able to solve problems and develop or come up with solutions and to lead and build teams.  Today, I personally feel that there's still a gap, but it's closing and I believe many executives of multinational companies who hire MBAs will say the same thing.  For instance, many local MBAs have the advantage of their understanding of the local market and biz practices, also their relationships and networks in this market.

(ming):  In my opinion, MBA studies is something that is more subjective, which means that it really depends on the students itself most of the time, how he can use the theory into application.

(Larry_Wang):  You could say that ming, but it's a lot about environment too.  Mainly, I'm saying that top overseas programs apply the theory more and better in their programs than local MBA programs do.  So many local mbas tend to be very theoretical and analytical, but lack in their leadership and people and situational sense.

(celia):  Would the immersion in a foreign country while studying the MBA overseas provide any advantage?  Your definition of top overseas programs please?

(Larry_Wang):  Yes, I think for a mainlander, the immersion abroad is a big help.  It helps them be more independent, takes them out of their comfort zone, and requires them to adapt to international behavior and way of thinking.  At least they are exposed more to it, so their perspectives are broadened, which is a big thing if you want to be successful in a world class company.

Top overseas program, would be top 50 ranked, worldwide.  That's just my definition, so ones like Wharton, HBS, Stanford, Columbia, UCLA, MIT, UC Chicago, Northwestern, etc.

(ming):  Is there more institution oversea that provides MBA courses compared to China? How do they judge the quality of the courses from each individual institution?  Or how do we judge the course?

(Larry_Wang):  No employer judges the quality of a course, they only judge you.  So they can tell the quality of a course by how impressive you are in that subject matter.  They are not hiring credentials, they're hiring a person.

I think you judge an overall program.  Personally, I wouldn't recommend any b-school just because of a course; I'd weigh the overall program.

(celia):  Would you say then that most organizations in China would consider the ranking of an MBA school as important to their decision making when recruiting?

(Larry_Wang):  Of course, going to a top ranked b-school catches a employer's attention and opens doors, but once the interview starts, it's how impressive your capabilities and achievements come across.  For example, I've seen many candidates with credentials up and down, but totally unimpressive in person.  You wouldn't think that to be the case, but of course, that happens.  But once we meet them, all the credentials go out the window and it just comes down to how they stand up in the interview.

(peter):  When is the best time to do a MBA?  And full time or part time?

(Larry_Wang):  An MBA is a very personal thing, so timing all depends on your purpose and situation.  Like what experience do you already have or are you lacking?  What is your financial situation?  Do you have the time to take a two year break?  If you're thinking about a full time program or if you have financial obligations, then a part time program may make more sense.  Many factors may be involved and different for each person, so not to cop out, but it really depends on your personal situation and objectives.

(mba_joe):  So do you think if you graduate from an Ivy League opposed to a non-Ivy League that you are guaranteed more money upon graduation?

(Larry_Wang):  I don't think you can guarantee anything in life, but statistically, graduates from top programs, like Ivy schools do average higher salaries.

(peter):  Can a person be successful without MBA in these days and ages?

(Larry_Wang):   Of course!  Bill Gates  Warren Buffet  Michael Dell…Too many people in this world are very successful without MBAs.  So here's the thing, an MBA is no guarantee for success; it just increases your POTENTIAL to be a successful manager and biz executive by helping you with many fundamentals related to what strong managers and biz execs need to do in those roles.

(queen):  When you get an interview, does it make huge difference, the full time and part time?  Top overseas MBAs are still too expensive to reach…and like you said local MBAs are somehow not good enough, then what can we do?

(Larry_Wang):  The biggest difference is that p/t is mostly the coursework, whereas you get more of an overall experience in a f/t program.  For instance, a greater level of interaction with other students, projects, and with companies coming to the program.  So f/t really helps a lot of younger professionals mature and develop and become more well-rounded, whereas p/t tends to be for those who are older and want to strengthen their career track by gaining more well-rounded and solid technical business training and knowledge.

Regarding the cost of an overseas MBA, it's a huge investment, particularly for someone from China.  But another way to go is a local program that offers the opportunity to do a semester abroad so in your two year program.  You can spend 3-4 months in another program.  It's not exactly the same as a two year overseas program, but more cost effective.

(mba_joe):  What advice do you have for Chinese students wanting to study abroad?

(Larry_Wang):  My advice would be to get into the best program you possibly can.  I hope that doesn’t sound too simple, but there's a big difference between a top 20 program and a top 50 program.  I've been to many MBA programs to do presentations and you can definitely tell the difference and gives you some of that overseas exposure.

(queen):  As I heard, for consulting firm, you want to be a big potato, the first thing you need to do is get an MBA

(Larry_Wang):  For like Mckinsey, BCG Bain & Co, yes, you're right, they only recruit from the top programs and then only take the top students from them.  It's extremely competitive.  But that's not necessarily the case for business consulting like with Accenture, Baring Point, IBM consulting, etc.  For them, experience and domain industry knowledge is number one.  So you see more people without MBAs working in those firms.  Although an MBA does help in those firms as well, they are not an absolute essential like for the top strategy firms.

(mba_joe):  Which do you think is more important for a young professional wanting to advance their career:  Experience or education?

(Larry_Wang):  Experience, for sure, education is the foundation, but experience shows your ability to apply it and get results.  So when I say experience, I don't just mean that you worked for 5 years, but mainly the capabilities that you've developed and achievements and results that you delivered and can point to and talk about with a prospective employer.

(mba_gavin):  But if some fresh graduates don’t have experience and do have an MBA, does that make some big difference?

(Larry_Wang):  Employers don't want to know about your coursework, because business is real life.  It's not theoretical.  Very few MBAs have no experience and if they don’t, you have to wonder about the quality of their MBA program.  Because most top MBA programs require you to have at least 4-5 years work experience to get in.  MBA programs aren't for fresh graduates from university.

(queen):  But sometimes, you have to have a paper to knock at the doors.

(Larry_Wang):  Agreed, and that's a big value of an MBA from a top school.  It does open doors and gets you more looks.  But there are a lot of ways to impress people or get in the door of an opportunity.  An MBA is not a guarantee for creativity, initiative or ingenuity.  Those things are more personal characteristics that have little to do with having an MBA, or not.

(celia):  Most local MBAs are run over a period of 2 years, some overseas MBA is run for a period of 1 or 1.5years, does that have an impact on employers and their hiring patterns?

(Larry_Wang):  I've never heard so.  In China, companies are hiring year round, unlike other more mature markets that are more cyclical.  But China is a high growth market where companies are always pushing their growth and trying to expand their market and opportunities.  So I don't really see as much attention paid to hiring cycles here as in places like the U.S. or Europe.

(mba_joe):  Do you think if a foreigner comes to china and gets an MBA, would you recommend working for a local Chinese company or multinational?

(Larry_Wang):  Whether an MBA or not, I usually recommend an international company.  Mainly, because the environment can appreciate and leverage the person's international background more.  Although local companies need people with foreign backgrounds, many don't know how to utilize them and even resist them after inviting them in.  Of course, that's changing as more and more local companies develop in their understanding and adoption of international business practices. 

It's not about whether it's a Chinese or Western way to do something.  All we care about is the best way.  Many of the best practices of today happen to come from more mature overseas markets.  As China continues to mature as a market, it will come to define best practices in many areas.  But today at least, they are relatively fewer.  They are still learning from the west in many areas.  Again, that's not a nationalistic or cultural statement, it is a business reality.

(queen):  Does an overseas MBA really worth that much money?  As you said just now, the result is getting closer, but the money is still very different, since we could do the same thing here, even the same school.

(Larry_Wang):  Personally, I don't think the result is the same.  Overall, I believe there's a big difference between MBA graduates from top overseas programs and local programs with the exception of perhaps CEIBS.  That doesn't mean that MBA graduates from local programs are not very successful, but the ones out of top overseas programs are really polished.  They tend to be more well rounded, confident, mature, poised and polished a high potential execs.  It's because the standards of their programs are so high and their environments are so good.  Plus, the students they attract are very talented and diverse.

(queen):  As I’ve been told, nowadays, people are lower their standards to get more students, both overseas and mainland MBAs.  So many competitors are out there.

(Larry_Wang):  There's a reason why they are ranked as top 50 programs in the world, because the graduates they produce are the most attractive to employers based on what employers are willing to pay for them.  

It's not because of the name of the school, but because they are more impressive head-to-head when being compared to other potential hires by employers.  Just to wrap up, as I always tell MBA audiences.  An MBA never hurt anyone, but the experience that one gets out of an MBA can vary greatly even within the same program.  An MBA program is merely an environment that offers you excellent resources and opportunities to learn and develop yourself, but it's really about how you take advantage of those opportunities and situations.

(mba_gavin):  As an employer, overseas MBA Vs China MBA; how's the salary gap?  Especially in china, are foreign fresh MBA's worth a lot more than fresh Chinese MBA's?  If so, how much?

(Larry_Wang):  Let me put it this way, in many cases, the overseas MBA from a top program is going to be able to get positions that a local MBA may not get.  If that's the case, then the overseas MBA will make more.  But if they are competing for the same position, and the local MBA wins out or I should say the overseas MBA wins out, then the salary should be about the same.  So for instance, the Mckinseys and PE/VC firms like to hire a lot of mainland returnees from top overseas programs that many local MBAs do not seem to get selected for as much.

(mba_gavin):  Are there lots of instances, where local and foreign MBA's compete for the same position?

(Larry_Wang):  Of course, there are many instances.  All I can say is that nothing is automatic, where the overseas MBA always beats out the local MBA.  In fact, we've seen many instances otherwise.  It does depend on the individual and their total package, which is mainly evaluated by an employer according to the strength of their capabilities and the impressiveness of their achievements.  That's what hiring comes down to, looking for people who stand out to you in those two categories.